(This is cross-posted at BlogHer.)
Ah, June. A nice month, not too hot…and generally a popular time for weddings. But with so many taking place, I thought we should hear from some people who don’t plan on having a ceremony — ever.
Jill:
As far as I can tell, most people end up getting married — yet I can’t imagine that every one of those people, or even most of them, found someone who, social constraints and cultural expectations aside, they would actually want to spend the rest of their life with in a monogamous relationship. I don’t think it’s cynical for me to point out that most people settle. And there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that. Marriage is the cultural norm. It brings tons of benefits with it, including important social ones — men and women of a certain age are expected to be married; married people socialize with other married people; not being married is often viewed as an indicator that something is wrong with you. At some point (early 20s in much of the country, early 30s in places like New York), it seems like everyone around you is getting married, and if you’ve been with the same person for a while and you get along well enough and love each other, then marriage just makes sense. And of course, there are those rare people who find the love of their life and enter into a fabulous marriage that they whole-heartedly want to be in and that trumps all other aspects of their life in its perfection. But those people are few and far between.
Hugo said, in response to Jill’s post:
I’m convinced that a great many women [...] are reluctant to marry (or marry again) because they believe that their are relatively few men worth marrying. Many women look at the colossal sacrifices other women make in marriage, they look at the legions of husbands and fathers who are emotionally distant or desperately dependent, and they say to themselves “no thanks.” They are legitimately concerned that when they marry, a part of themselves will disappear; they fear — sadly, often rightly — that they will be forced to neglect their own growth to focus on enabling the growth of their husbands and their children.
Now obviously I have friends who are happily married or partnered so I’m not trying to diminish or disrespect anyone’s relationship. As long as you’re happy, I’m happy for you. I’m just saying that marriage isn’t necessarily the be all/end all for everybody and it’s unfortunate that we’re sold that box of rocks from the moment we’re born, wasting years and years and years chasing after some dream that isn’t even ours.
One can find peace and joy and love and fulfillment without a partner and I’m living proof.
You see, I’m not broken. I’m not anyone’s “other half”. I’m not “empty” and there is no “hole” in me to fill. I am whole and I belong to me. And I wouldn’t have it any other way.
When SJW‘s parents celebrated their 40th wedding anniversary, she said she would never reach that milestone herself. It’s not because she doesn’t see herself staying with the same person, but because they’ve made the decision not to get married:
We have myriad reasons for not getting married. The biggest from my side is that I know it makes no difference. Either we’re committed to each other or we’re not, and no piece of paper will make that change for us. D will stay or he won’t. And I don’t want to be a slave to convention when there is no reason for it. I don’t want to get married just because society tells us we should.
But the fact is that being married IS different than living together, as any same-sex couple denied that right could tell you. We have the luxury, D and I, of getting married should we so choose. (So do, of course, all same-sex couples in our country.) We could change it. But we don’t. Why bother, now? In a way I kind of don’t want to just to prove to people that you can co-habit and raise a family and own a home and NOT be married. Just because so many people were so shocked when I said I was pregnant, and asked me if it was planned, and even told me that co-habiting couples are more likely to split up. Makes me want to make it work just to spite them.
From a guy’s perspective — Tobias, on why he can’t see himself getting married:
It has nothing to do with past relationships in my honest opinion, despite what people think or say. I don’t want to get married. I don’t ever see myself getting stuck in that trivial world. For me, if you love someone then why can’t that be enough. Why marry? If you love them and they love you what’s the problem? Why do you need this proof that people call marriage? [...]
I know alot of girls and they’re all cool people, I trust them. But in a relationship I fail to do that. It’s hard to explain really — I CAN trust them in a relationship — but I wouldn’t take the relationship seriously enough to get to the marriage or even really the love stage. It’s a combination of slight lack of trust and the fear of being tied to someone and being mentally fucked up by it in a way that seems unexpected but really you knew it was coming all along.
Anyone who knows me knows I laugh at anything, I don’t take life seriously. I like having fun in the company of my friends and that is what satisfies me in life. I don’t want or expect any more than that. I am grateful for what I have and I want it to stay that way. Marriage would spoil that for me and I don’t want it.
Christina wrote an article about why more women choose to remain single than get married. She takes the position of advocating for marriage, but this was one of her points about why women stay single:
[One of the reasons] is the increasing selfishness of American culture. We live in a world where the sun rises on our left shoulder and sets on our right. [An MSN article] detailed the benefits of being single: You have more money and can spend it how you want, you can travel where you want, you can make your own decisions and not be accountable to anyone. All self-centered motives. Marriage requires compromising and sacrificing our own needs for those of our husbands or wives. A single woman can do what she wants, when she wants, and she lives in a society that promotes such a lifestyle. Why should she give that up for marriage?
Gnome heard an argument against marriage and countered it with her own thoughts:
I overheard two of my colleagues speaking today. One was saying that the reason he and his girlfriend don’t want to get married is because when you’re married, you are forced to be together. If you are not married, however, you are freely choosing to be with that person every day of your life. He said he wakes up every day and chooses to be with his partner because he loves her.
I do understand what he’s saying, but you could say the same about marriage. Regardless of the religious reasons that are attached to the institution of marriage, is marriage not the ultimate sign of love and commitment? When you say “I do” (actually I just said “YES” and never “I do”), you are saying “I want to wake up next to you for the rest of my life. I choose you as my life partner.” Marriage is not for sissies. This is the real deal. You have to love, and be very serious and committed to your partner.
When you’re just “together” it’s easier to get out of the relationship — there’s always that back door that you leave open… Just in case.
Anyone have any thoughts for or against marriage?
15 Comments
It’s not a for or against, but several of the commenters seem to think that marriage is no more than a ceremony and a piece of paper saying “yo, we’re a couple”. There are lots of legal entanglements that go with marriage–that doesn’t mean you SHOULD want them, only that there’s more to it than a wedding.
Well, I’m a fan of marriage.
I wholeheartedly disagree that marriage “forces” two people to be together. Everyday is a choice to be someone better for the sake of someone else. To boil it down to tax status and what’s on a ring finger is a disservice, inaccurate, and oversimplified, I think.
In the end, I feel like we’re all talking about commitment. I happen to believe that one-on-one, romantically-based commitment is best served within marriage. Being one entity (not two halves, but better together than separate) is an aspiration and I think marriage best represents that goal.
i think there are (at least) two separate things here that shouldn’t be confused. there’s “committing to spend your life with someone” and there’s legal marriage. jill and ms. jared’s objections, for instance, are primarily against making a lifetime monogamous commitment. once you’ve already done that, it’s a separate question on whether to make it legal.
i long ago made that first choice, and it wasn’t any sacrifice at all for me personally. i agree that a lot of people settle, usually when the commitment is more important to them than the person they are committing to. but i wasn’t looking for a commitment and had no interest in getting married; when i met the right person, the comittment naturally followed — i have no interest in ever being with anyone other than him. and i have gotten to the point in my life where i know enough about myself and the world to know that won’t change.
the second choice, whether to make it legal, is a little harder. for a long time i said i’d never get married. i’ve said/felt many of the things above, including the thing about waking up and choosing to be together (like gnome’s colleague), wanting to spite the societal convention (like SJW), that there’s no point because there’s no difference (also like SJW and also tobias), fear that it would somehow change me and/or our relationship for the worst, etc. etc.
but i’ve come to change my mind. the fact is, there are a LOT of legal and financial reasons to get married. (just as one example, i own our house – if i died and left him the house he would not be able to afford to keep it because of the estate tax. if we were married, he’d get the house tax free.) as i get older, i feel the need to protect my family (myself and my partner, we aren’t having kids) by taking advantage of all the legal and financial protections we can get. i used to be adamant that i wouldn’t get married just for financial and legal reasons as a matter of principle, but i got over that. there’s no point in hurting myself and putting my family at risk just to prove some kind of point. a lot of the things a younger me would have seen as “selling out” i now just see as “being practical.”
really, none of the reasons why i didn’t want to get married make much sense once you’ve been together long enough and once you get to a certain age. i don’t care anymore about bucking convention. that seems to me to be cutting off your nose to spite your face. i’ve rejected society’s conventions my whole life without trying to do so, i certainly don’t need to go out of my way to prove that “they” didn’t suck me into to doing the conventional thing. i’m comfortable enough with myself and my relationship that i know that a piece of paper isn’t going to change anything. for me, marriage is just a financial and legal transaction, like buying insurance.
also, the thing about waking up every day and choosing to be with someone is really a fiction after you’ve been together long enough. our money is co-mingled, we have a house together, we have pets together, we are part of each other’s families, etc. etc. at this point, it would be pretty much as hard to break up as it would be if we were married. (i’ve been divorced, the legal aspect of it was REALLY easy, at least in maryland.) the truth is, when you have been married for all intents and purposes for long enough, there is really no reason NOT to get legally married, if you can. and there are tons of financial and legal reasons to do it.
I look forward to marrying the finest mail-order bride that money can buy someday.
For many people, marriage is deeply intertwined with religion, and it makes sense for them to grow their spiritual relationship. For others, the cultural institution (think arranged marriages in India) is almost expected, if not outright encouraged. Then, there are those that expect a fairy-tale, and think it will be all sunshine and lollipops. Or, those people marrying to avoid being alone. And, as always, loving relationships taking “the next step.” So long as both people (or all participants in the case of polygamy/polynymy) are educated and know what’s going on, I’m all for it. When you rush in ignorant of all the consequences of your decision, I’m going to naysay.
Our decision to get married was really two-fold, aside from the being in love thing.
First, it was a partially religious decision. While neither me nor Mr. Geeky are very religious, my family are old fashioned Catholics who don’t believe in living together before marriage. Call it one part religion, two parts respect for my parents and my upbringing.
Second, the legal and financial aspects as others have pointed out. I agree with Jen about not cutting off your nose to spite your face.
What most surprised me was Ms. Jared’s comment, “You see, I’m not broken. I’m not anyone’s “other halfâ€. I’m not “empty†and there is no “hole†in me to fill. I am whole and I belong to me. And I wouldn’t have it any other way.” I’m not broken, or someone’s other half, and I certainly don’t need a man or anyone else to make me whole and complete! But that doesn’t mean I can’t choose to spend the rest of my life with someone I love either. Marriage, or even a committed relationship, does not require the other person to complete your life in some way, but rather complement your life and bring some degree of joy to it. At least in my opinion :)
fascinating topic! what is amazing is that we can all have our viewpoints and live our lives how we choose. we can marry. we can not marry. we can live with a lifepartner and have kids and not be married. or be married and choose to remain childless. we can be single and satisfied or single and somber. we can be two men, two women, two women and a man, two men and a woman…(may same sex marriage be one day soon recognized with the same respect and deep legality as heterosexual marriage in our whole country!) having a choice is what is profound to me! thank goodness for that!
I don’t believe in the institution of marriage. I am an atheist and I think that marriage is largely a religious ceremony that should be kept out of government affairs. I believe that our government should recognize all current and future marriages as domestic partnerships (or insert some other pc term here) and any adult couple (including homosexuals) would be eligible to apply, be legalized, and be entitled to all government benefits. If people still wanted to get “married” then they would be welcome to have those ceremonies performed by their churches or in whatever other fashion they desired. Then those churches could choose to enforce their own rules about who qualifies under their beliefs for marriage and could therefore discriminate against whomever they wanted. The discriminated against party could then choose not to belong to that church or other institution. Obviously I don’t have all the details worked out but basically, I think the government has no right to discriminate against anyone and the problem of discrimination seems to largely stem from the religious community.
So there’s my long-winded tangent about why I don’t believe in the institution of marriage. That being said, I am happily married. Marty & I were married by a friend who was deputized for the occasion and we wrote our own vows.
We chose to get married because we wanted to be entitled to the legal benefits our government gives people who are married. Check out this website for a small list of the over 1,400 State and Federal benefits available to married persons only http://tinyurl.com/cud2h. For Marty & I the most concerning benefit was the ability to create a Living Trust together and the ability to make medical decisions in an emergency situation.
We both realize that this certificate doesn’t tie either of us to the marriage. Looking at the divorce statistics, I’d have to say that the certificate isn’t any kind of guarantee of stability or lasting power.
Like Geeky, Ms. Jared’s comment bothered me. I do not feel that Marty is my other “half” and that I am not a whole person without him. He is a partner and a friend that compliments me. I enjoy his company so much so that I don’t want to be without it.
I’m very single, and I’d probably hit myself in the forehead with a hammer if I thought it would do any good. But it wouldn’t.
Having written about the gay marriage debate, I see a real value to marriage — if for no other reason than the question of paperwork. If, god forbid, your partner goes into a coma or vegetative status, the decision to live or die would be up to the parents — who might have a completely different point of view from the partner. If you are married, though, this question would likely not arise.
Also, wills and custody agreements between unmarried partners become more complicated if there is a court challenge. Third, I think it benefits children if the parents are married. I’m not advocating that people stay in unhappy marriages for the kids, but if you are going to be together, why not be married to protect your children’s interests?
I don’t think of marriage as a contract, as cheesy as that sounds – I believe that it is a simple choice (or not so simple?) that people make IF it feels right to their relationship.
I don’t feel any less of a person because J & I aren’t married – but I know that when it happens, I’ll be looking forward to that next step. But I’ll stick to the age old fence sitter… everyone feels different about it.
Oddly enough, I agree with an atheist commenter. I don’t think that marriage should be the realm of the government. My faith believes certain things about marriage, and I don’t want people confusing that with what civil unions determine. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s…
I do think that anyone who has a faith where marriage is important finds the benefits of that view of marriage in their lives. However, I also come from a faith where our leaders are not married to people. Marriage for our religious is a commitment to the Lord and His Church.
Marriage in our secular culture is quick and easy, but it should involve more thought. The damage divorce does to families is unfair to those who have no choice. We often think of children, but it affects many. The rest of the ex-spouses’ families have to take on great burdens when a person married someone who is not right for them. Coworkers and friends have to help and try to repair the damage. I’m not saying they shouldn’t. I just wish that no one ever had to go through divorce or a bad marriage.
I don’t think most people should get married the way we look at it now: wedding more important than the marriage. Too much in our culture is built on the assumption that a marriage will be successful. It is up to each of us to act like the adults we are supposed to be.
I’m not sure my views on marriage can be wrapped up into one nice little blog comment, especially because it’s all still pretty new to me. I think because I’m still new to it and fairly young, I cannot appreciate all of the complexities of truly promising your whole life to someone, but I will just do my best every day to live by my vows and I hope that in the end we have a really long string a days that have somehow created a long and lasting marriage. I guess I try not to think of it much bigger than that, or it can get really daunting.
One thing I feel most strongly about is allowing same sex couples to marry. It is heartbreaking to me that our government doesn’t allow that.
I know every situation is very different, but it seems to me that the majority of my friends who don’t want to get married, seem to do it more for a selfish reason than anything else – they don’t want to be “stuck” with that person “to death do them part” or they think they have more control over “their own” money . . . I’m sure when my parents got married some 25+ years ago they weren’t thinking they’d be “stuck” together forever, but rather looking forward to spending their futures together. Guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder – just seems these days people are a bit more selfish, but that’s just my 2 cents!
I wanted you to know that I read this post. Since I’m just getting out of a marriage I’m sure that I’m not the one to give advice. But at least I personally know what I want next time…and what shouldn’t be ignored.
Here is what I think about it. Either we’re committed to each other or we’re not, and no piece of paper will make that change for us. Nor do I want to get married just because society tells us we should. I also know that the marriage step is a source of many couple’s demise.
Many of my friends have had women they ended it with because the woman pushed and pushed about marriage. Keep in mind that 63% of marriages ends in divorce. Many couples live happily together without getting married.
To make a solid commitment. That’s a charming one. We are getting married to make it harder to walk away from each other. How romantic.
To make our relationship official. You could achieve that by placing an announcement in the newspaper saying, “We are now official.” You don’t need a caterer to serve champagne in a ballroom just to make it official.